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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP
[I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #234956] Mi, 08 März 2006 14:12
John Duncan Yoyo  
I just read this over on SciFi Wire at
< http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=3 4888>.

---------------------------
Pratchett Gets His Nebula Nod

British SF author Terry Pratchett, whose novel Going Postal has earned
him his first Nebula Award nomination, told SCI FI Wire that he never
expected to "get within a mile of" of the award, considered one of
SF's two top honors. News of his Nebula nod left him feeling "stunned
amazement," Pratchett said in an interview. "Look, behind all this
astonishment is the fact that until the late '90s, my publishing
history in the U.S. was dire: Books came out late, in the wrong order,
with strange covers and little in the way of promotion, while in the
U.K., I was a number-one best-seller twice a year, every year."

Pratchett added: "It was awful. That began to change hugely about
seven years ago, ... and sales are very good, so I value the
nomination in itself as some kind of slap on the back for hanging in
there."

Going Postal, the 29th book in Pratchett's Discworld series, is a
comedic look at post offices struggling to compete with e-mail. It
follows Moist von Lipwig as he barely escapes being hanged and goes to
work as the postmaster general of the Ankh-Morpork postal office,
which hasn't been opened in 20 years. Publishers Weekly said, "Thanks
to the timely subject matter and Pratchett's effervescent wit, this
29th Discworld novel ... may capture more of the American audience he
deserves."

Because Pratchett has never been nominated before, he said he has no
idea how his life might change if he wins. "More sales? A big grin?
Angels descending from on high? That would be nice," he said. "In
truth, though, the Discworld series has been going for 22 years and
more than 30 books, so it's hard to know what effect an award would
have now."

The Nebula Award, given by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of
America, will be presented May 6 in Tempe, Ariz.
-Lee Barnathan
----------------
Congratulations.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #234958 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 14:31
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach John Duncan Yoyo:

> Publishers Weekly said,
> "Thanks to the timely subject matter and Pratchett's
> effervescent wit, this 29th Discworld novel ... may capture
> more of the American audience he deserves."

Somehow I inserted a "than" between "audience" and "he", and
was just preparing a blistering reply, questioning Publishers
Weekly's competence and authority. Never mind...

Fingers crossed for the award. Who else is in the running?

(BTW, while trying to find evidence of a Pernese distance-
writer for another thread, I noticed that Anne McCaffery has,
according to the cover of the first Corgi edition of
"Dragonsinger", won something called a "Nebular" Award. Is
this related to the Hogus?)

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #234988 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 16:04
Kimberley Verburg  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:

> Fingers crossed for the award. Who else is in the running?

_Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell_ by Susanna Clarke
_Camouflage_ by Joe Haldeman
_Polaris_ by Jack McDevitt
_Air_ by Geoff Ryman (cue Eric doing a little dance of joy)
_Orphans of Chaos_ by John C. Wright

The rest of the nominations for short story, novella, etc. are here:
<http://www.sfwa.org/awards/2006/NebFinal2005.html>.

--
Kimberley Verburg
kim [at] lspace.org
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235048 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:42
GenericUnique  
At the risk of being torn apart by rabid fanboys/girls/bondage kitties,
I think JS&MrN is more deserving than Going Postal.

Kimberley Verburg wrote:
> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>
> > Fingers crossed for the award. Who else is in the running?
>
> _Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell_ by Susanna Clarke
> _Camouflage_ by Joe Haldeman
> _Polaris_ by Jack McDevitt
> _Air_ by Geoff Ryman (cue Eric doing a little dance of joy)
> _Orphans of Chaos_ by John C. Wright
>
> The rest of the nominations for short story, novella, etc. are here:
> <http://www.sfwa.org/awards/2006/NebFinal2005.html>.
>
> --
> Kimberley Verburg
> kim [at] lspace.org
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235053 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:48
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach GenericUnique:

> At the risk of being torn apart by rabid
> fanboys/girls/bondage kitties, I think JS&MrN is more
> deserving than Going Postal.

So do I, but I don't care; I *still* want GP to win 8-)...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235057 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 21:52
Stacie Hanes  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach GenericUnique:
>
>> At the risk of being torn apart by rabid
>> fanboys/girls/bondage kitties, I think JS&MrN is more
>> deserving than Going Postal.
>
> So do I, but I don't care; I *still* want GP to win 8-)...

I wish Mr. P well, but since I haven't read the others, I don't have a
strong, informed opinion.

--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235076 ] Mi, 08 März 2006 22:47
bbottorff  
> British SF author Terry Pratchett, whose novel Going Postal has earned
> him his first Nebula Award nomination, told SCI FI Wire that he never
> expected to "get within a mile of" of the award, considered one of
> SF's two top honors.

Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235175 ] Do, 09 März 2006 13:12
Kimberley Verburg  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
>> British SF author Terry Pratchett, whose novel Going Postal has earned
>> him his first Nebula Award nomination, told SCI FI Wire that he never
>> expected to "get within a mile of" of the award, considered one of
>> SF's two top honors.
>
> Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
> books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.

American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy, Doomsday Book,
Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness, Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep,
The Diamond Age, Mirror Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow
Queen, Stand on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...

Really? Gosh.

--
Kimberley Verburg
kim [at] lspace.org
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235199 ] Do, 09 März 2006 14:49
bbottorff  
> > Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
> > books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.
>
> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy, Doomsday Book,
> Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness, Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep,
> The Diamond Age, Mirror Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow
> Queen, Stand on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>
> Really? Gosh.

Yep. I have read, started, or glanced inside the cover and shuddered[1]
over about half of those. Of that half, I finished one, _Mirror
Dance_, and while it was OK, I've preferred just about every book she's
written since, and a few that she wrote before.

[1] No, I'm not judging a book by its cover. I'm judging it by it's
cover and its blurb, and maybe a few lines inside.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235267 ] Do, 09 März 2006 18:13
flobert  
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:49:28 GMT, bbottorff [at] nomail.com (Boyd Bottorff)
wrote:

>> > Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
>> > books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.
>>
>> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy, Doomsday Book,
>> Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness, Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep,
>> The Diamond Age, Mirror Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow
>> Queen, Stand on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>>
>> Really? Gosh.
>
>Yep. I have read, started, or glanced inside the cover and shuddered[1]
>over about half of those. Of that half, I finished one, _Mirror
>Dance_, and while it was OK, I've preferred just about every book she's
>written since, and a few that she wrote before.
>
>[1] No, I'm not judging a book by its cover. I'm judging it by it's
>cover and its blurb, and maybe a few lines inside.

Good job I bought red mars without really dong that. Was on my way to
reading uni for an interview, had hours on the train so I bought it.
took a while to get past the first 10-11 pages, but then it got a lot
better. Hooked on the book now.

finally found a library that had the audiobook of it too - don't like
it, guy mispronounces most of the words :-P Guess I ws spoilt by the
splendifferous tallents of messers Briggs, Planer and Robinson. I mean
E.V.A. pronounced eva*shudder*
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235306 ] Do, 09 März 2006 20:49
GenericUnique  
Stacie Hanes wrote:
>
> I wish Mr. P well, but since I haven't read the others, I don't have a
> strong, informed opinion.
>

And that's ever stopped someone on the 'net?
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235339 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 00:49
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Kimberley Verburg:

> Boyd Bottorff wrote:

>> Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest
>> most of the books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm
>> sort of torn on this.
>
> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy,
> Doomsday Book, Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness,
> Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep, The Diamond Age, Mirror
> Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow Queen, Stand
> on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>
> Really? Gosh.

I've read.. hmm.. six of those, and liked most of them. Must
check out the others.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235351 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 02:36
graham  
Hi there,

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:12:50 -0500, John Duncan Yoyo
<john-duncan-yoyo [at] cox.net> wrote:

>British SF author Terry Pratchett, whose novel Going Postal has earned
>him his first Nebula Award nomination,

But not a "Hugos"?! ;-)

Cheers,
Graham.
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235355 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 02:36
graham  
Hi there,

On 8 Mar 2006 12:42:23 -0800, "GenericUnique"
<genericunique [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>At the risk of being torn apart by rabid fanboys/girls/bondage kitties,
>I think JS&MrN is more deserving than Going Postal.

JS&MrN is a very good and original story with a inventive slant on the
whole magic business, but it has, for me, two major problems: one is
that it could have done with a bit more editing and the other is that
it could have done with a *lot* more editing.

It's a great first novel, but it drags in places, it's over wordy and
could do with being one or two hundred pages shorter.

Having said that, if people haven't read it, I'd still recommend it
being worth a look.

Cheers,
Graham.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235360 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 03:26
Stacie Hanes  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach Kimberley Verburg:
>
>> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>>> Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest
>>> most of the books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm
>>> sort of torn on this.
>>
>> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy,
>> Doomsday Book, Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness,
>> Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep, The Diamond Age, Mirror
>> Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow Queen, Stand
>> on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>>
>> Really? Gosh.
>
> I've read.. hmm.. six of those, and liked most of them. Must
> check out the others.

I've read 5 of them and liked all, if to varying degrees.

--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235385 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 11:05
Foxly  
Wow! I'm surprised that he wasn't published as popularly in America
before with the number of my friends that shoved his books down my
throat in America over the years! He has had a tremendous following
over there. Of course, I'm in Britain now (be afraid, be very afraid)
and I didn't hang out with more than 5 or 6 people as a general rule
when I was over there. Well, if it means anything, my British husband
bought me The Last Hero as a gift when we first started dating. I have
been reading Terry's books since. Going Postal was brilliant. The
Truth, Thud!, and especially Where's My Cow?
Monstrous Regiment was a bit different for as an American reader. Of
course, I'd never heard the Rogue's March 'Poor Old Soldier' before
reading that, but I loved how the references worked even for first-time
readers. "The devil shall be my sergeant." My husband explained a lot
of the time period the parody was about, seeing as in America we
usually don't fixate on wars over 100 years ago save academically. Then
he made me watch the Sharpe series...
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235417 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 14:04
Eric Jarvis  
Daibhid Ceanaideach daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com wrote in
<Xns9781F25163D6Ddaibhid [at] 130.133.1.4>:
> Also Sprach Kimberley Verburg:
>
> > Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
> >> Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest
> >> most of the books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm
> >> sort of torn on this.
> >
> > American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy,
> > Doomsday Book, Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness,
> > Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep, The Diamond Age, Mirror
> > Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow Queen, Stand
> > on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
> >
> > Really? Gosh.
>
> I've read.. hmm.. six of those, and liked most of them. Must
> check out the others.
>

I've read eleven of them, and the list includes three of my all time
favourite novels.

--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235461 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 19:36
carol  
graham <graham [at] DELETETHISaffordable-leather.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> On 8 Mar 2006 12:42:23 -0800, "GenericUnique"
> <genericunique [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >At the risk of being torn apart by rabid fanboys/girls/bondage kitties,
> >I think JS&MrN is more deserving than Going Postal.
>
> JS&MrN is a very good and original story with a inventive slant on the
> whole magic business, but it has, for me, two major problems: one is
> that it could have done with a bit more editing and the other is that
> it could have done with a *lot* more editing.
>
> It's a great first novel, but it drags in places, it's over wordy and
> could do with being one or two hundred pages shorter.
>
> Having said that, if people haven't read it, I'd still recommend it
> being worth a look.

Hmm. I started reading it in January. I stopped somewhere around page 99
and haven't mustered the enthusiasm to go back to it yet.

In the meantime I've got through over 20 other books, including a quite
crap X-Files story and two stupendously bad books by Amy Stout who is
undoubtedly a much worse writer than Susanna Clarke (and has a much
worse copy editor to boot.[1]). Why I managed to slog my way through
those but can't drag myself back to JS&MrN I really don't know.

I don't know if GP is the more deserving book of the two, but it's by
far the more readable IMO.

[1] At one point a character is described as having something clinging
to him "like a family of flees" (sic). Earlier in the book the same
character's description includes mention that "his eyes shined (sic)
with humour". Grrr. Arrgh. And that's before you get to the hazy
plotting, vague characterisations and downright lousy writing.
--
Carol
Some are born weird, some achieve weirdness, and others
feed giraffes to the ceiling.
- Richard Robinson on uk.rec.sheds.
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235462 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 19:42
John Duncan Yoyo  
On 10 Mar 2006 02:05:18 -0800, "Foxly" <g4m3r [at] tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>Wow! I'm surprised that he wasn't published as popularly in America
>before with the number of my friends that shoved his books down my
>throat in America over the years! He has had a tremendous following
>over there. Of course, I'm in Britain now (be afraid, be very afraid)
>and I didn't hang out with more than 5 or 6 people as a general rule
>when I was over there. Well, if it means anything, my British husband
>bought me The Last Hero as a gift when we first started dating. I have
>been reading Terry's books since. Going Postal was brilliant. The
>Truth, Thud!, and especially Where's My Cow?
>Monstrous Regiment was a bit different for as an American reader. Of
>course, I'd never heard the Rogue's March 'Poor Old Soldier' before
>reading that, but I loved how the references worked even for first-time
>readers. "The devil shall be my sergeant." My husband explained a lot
>of the time period the parody was about, seeing as in America we
>usually don't fixate on wars over 100 years ago save academically. Then
>he made me watch the Sharpe series...

He was published for awhile and then lost his publisher. IMS he got
going again in the US with Small Gods at a new publisher. US
publisher's tolerance for non-blockbuster sales started to wane about
a decade ago.
--
John Duncan Yoyo
------------------------------o)
Brought to you by the Binks for Senate campaign comittee.
Coruscant is far, far away from wesa on Naboo.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235515 ] Fr, 10 März 2006 23:39
Lesley Weston  
in article Xns9781F25163D6Ddaibhid [at] 130.133.1.4, Daibhid Ceanaideach at
daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com wrote on 09/03/2006 3:49 PM:

> Also Sprach Kimberley Verburg:
>
>> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>
>>> Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest
>>> most of the books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm
>>> sort of torn on this.
>>
>> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy,
>> Doomsday Book, Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness,
>> Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep, The Diamond Age, Mirror
>> Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow Queen, Stand
>> on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>>
>> Really? Gosh.
>
> I've read.. hmm.. six of those, and liked most of them. Must
> check out the others.

The Nebula is the one that matters, isn't it? The one awarded by other
writers? Or maybe I've got them the wrong way round.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235523 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 00:00
bethbriuk  
Kimberley Verburg wrote:
> Boyd Bottorff wrote:
> > John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
> >> British SF author Terry Pratchett, whose novel Going Postal has earned
> >> him his first Nebula Award nomination, told SCI FI Wire that he never
> >> expected to "get within a mile of" of the award, considered one of
> >> SF's two top honors.
> >
> > Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
> > books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.
>
> American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy, Doomsday Book,
> Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness, Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep,
> The Diamond Age, Mirror Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow
> Queen, Stand on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
>
> Really? Gosh.
>
> --
> Kimberley Verburg
> kim [at] lspace.org

To answer two points in one post. I bought JS&MrN becauseA) It came
highly recommended and B) It is based partly in York.
I found it to be one of those books that once you put it down you can't
pick it up again!

American Gods is IMO the best nonPterry book I have ever read. I
finally broke off reading it at 3.30am and started again at about 9.30.
I have read 3 of the others but none of them <rang my bell> to the same
extent.

BriD
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235555 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 02:37
Arthur Hagen  
Lesley Weston <brightly_coloured_blob [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The Nebula is the one that matters, isn't it? The one awarded by other
> writers? Or maybe I've got them the wrong way round.

The big three are:

Nebula: Awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America
(SFWA), voted upon by prominent members.
Hugo: Awarded by The World Science Fiction Society (WSFS), and is decided
by popular vote among all members in a two-stage ballot.
World Fantasy Award: Awarded by the World Fantasy Convention (not to be
confused with Worldcon) of dealers and professionals, and is decided by five
appointed judges with

In my opinion, the Nebula is the lesser of the three - a back-slapping
thing. Authors might be likely to disagree. Don't get me wrong, it's still
a HUGE award for any author to win, but I sometimes get the feeling it's
given more because of who you are and who you know than what you wrote.
Both the Hugo and Nebula awards are likely to be given to well-advertised
and well-known authors[1], while the WFA is more independent of public
pressure, and thus strikes more randomly. For better and for worse.

Oh, and there's the Nobel Price in Literature, but the chance of any fantasy
author winning there is slim. Gunther Grass did, but that was probably more
due to this political agenda than his fantasy.

[1]: Hands up, everyone who would have voted for PTerry's next book without
even *reading* it first, simply because of who wrote it.

Regards,
--
*Art
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235558 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 05:06
Sable Basilisk  
>
> Oh, and there's the Nobel Price in Literature, but the chance of any fantasy
> author winning there is slim. Gunther Grass did, but that was probably more
> due to this political agenda than his fantasy.
>
> [1]: Hands up, everyone who would have voted for PTerry's next book without
> even *reading* it first, simply because of who wrote it.
>
> Regards,
> --
> *Art

Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while, instead of
all those depressing colonial books?
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235595 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 13:03
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:

>>
>> Oh, and there's the Nobel Price in Literature, but the
>> chance of any fantasy author winning there is slim.
>> Gunther Grass did, but that was probably more due to this
>> political agenda than his fantasy.
>>
>> [1]: Hands up, everyone who would have voted for PTerry's
>> next book without even *reading* it first, simply because
>> of who wrote it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --
>> *Art
>
> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while,
> instead of
> all those depressing colonial books?

The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and genre
fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly true, genre
*authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction by authors with a
"respectable" career can be.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: [R] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235606 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 14:30
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:

> > Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while,
> > instead of all those depressing colonial books?
>
> The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and genre
> fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly true, genre
> *authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction by authors with a
> "respectable" career can be.

Let's not use the phrase "genre fiction" as though it actually had a
meaning, please.

<Dorfl>Either all fiction is genre fiction or none is. I have not
decided yet.</Dorfl>

Adrian.
Re: [R] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235609 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 14:59
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Flesh-eating Dragon:

> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>> Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:
>
>> > Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a
>> > while, instead of all those depressing colonial
>> > books?
>>
>> The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and
>> genre fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly
>> true, genre *authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction
>> by authors with a "respectable" career can be.
>
> Let's not use the phrase "genre fiction" as though it
> actually had a meaning, please.
>
> <Dorfl>Either all fiction is genre fiction or none is. I
> have not decided yet.</Dorfl>

I have, and its the second one. But the Booker panel doesn't
see it like that.


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235612 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 15:52
pjamison2  
"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns97837ABA729A9daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...

> Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:
>
>> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while,
>> instead of
>> all those depressing colonial books?
>
> The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and genre
> fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly true, genre
> *authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction by authors with a
> "respectable" career can be.
>
In which case the critics and the literary snobs bend over backward denying
that what these respectable authors are writing isn't genre fiction. Think
PD James and Margaret Atwood.

Paul - Why, yes, I read Dave Langford's "Ansible". How did you guess?
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235621 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 16:46
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach pjamison2:

> "Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in
> message news:Xns97837ABA729A9daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...
>
>> Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:
>>
>>> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a
>>> while, instead of
>>> all those depressing colonial books?
>>
>> The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and
>> genre fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly
>> true, genre *authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction
>> by authors with a "respectable" career can be.
>>
> In which case the critics and the literary snobs bend over
> backward denying that what these respectable authors are
> writing isn't genre fiction. Think PD James and Margaret
> Atwood.

Um, ITYM denying that it *is* or *claiming* that it isn't...

> Paul - Why, yes, I read Dave Langford's "Ansible". How did
> you guess?

If you're talking SF, you're talking talking squids...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Be reasonable, demand the impossible now" -Robb Johnson
"Run before you walk, fly before you crawl" -Moist von Lipwig
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235658 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 20:56
emma_anne  
Boyd Bottorff <bbottorff [at] nomail.com> wrote:

> > > Well, considering that, with very few exceptions, I detest most of the
> > > books that won the Hugo or the Nebula, I'm sort of torn on this.
> >
> > American Gods, the Red, Green and Blue Mars trilogy, Doomsday Book,
> > Neuromancer, The Left Hand of Darkness, Ringworld, A Fire Upon the Deep,
> > The Diamond Age, Mirror Dance, Hyperion, Downbelow Station, The Snow
> > Queen, Stand on Zanzibar, Lord of Light, The Man in the High Castle...
> >
> > Really? Gosh.
>
> Yep. I have read, started, or glanced inside the cover and shuddered[1]
> over about half of those. Of that half, I finished one, _Mirror
> Dance_, and while it was OK, I've preferred just about every book she's
> written since, and a few that she wrote before.
>

IME, book awards are generally given to fairy depressing or disturbing
books - hence, I guess, mirror dance instead of one of her others. This
does not bode well for GP or any Terry Pratchett book
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235681 ] Sa, 11 März 2006 23:24
Lesley Weston  
in article dut9ks$e8d$1 [at] tree.lightning.broomstick.com, Arthur Hagen at
art [at] broomstick.com wrote on 10/03/2006 5:37 PM:

> Lesley Weston <brightly_coloured_blob [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The Nebula is the one that matters, isn't it? The one awarded by other
>> writers? Or maybe I've got them the wrong way round.
>
> The big three are:
>
> Nebula: Awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America
> (SFWA), voted upon by prominent members.
> Hugo: Awarded by The World Science Fiction Society (WSFS), and is decided
> by popular vote among all members in a two-stage ballot.

I would say that an honour awarded by your peers counts for much more than
one awarded by those who Don't Understand, however many of them there are.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP (long) [message #235713 ] So, 12 März 2006 02:37
Arthur Hagen  
Lesley Weston <brightly_coloured_blob [at] yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> in article dut9ks$e8d$1 [at] tree.lightning.broomstick.com, Arthur Hagen at
> art [at] broomstick.com wrote on 10/03/2006 5:37 PM:
>
>> The big three are:
>>
>> Nebula: Awarded by the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of
>> America (SFWA), voted upon by prominent members.
>> Hugo: Awarded by The World Science Fiction Society (WSFS), and is
>> decided by popular vote among all members in a two-stage ballot.
>
> I would say that an honour awarded by your peers counts for much more
> than one awarded by those who Don't Understand, however many of them
> there are.

Warning: Lots of opinions below. They're mine.

Possibly. However, there are a couple of writers of true genius that never
got deserved Nebulas because they managed to piss off too many of their
fellow peers[1], and others who never will get it because they're rather
asocial and don't mingle with their fellow authors. Still, I see what you
mean, and peer praise is really a good thing. It feels satisfying for
geeks, and I'm sure it feels good for writers too.

Personally, I think the third award, the World Fantasy Award, is the one
that hangs the highest. It's awarded by a panel of long time professionals
(writers, book collectors, used book dealers, etc.) who are not under peer
pressure, except from each other. Five out of the seven books they choose
between are not nominated by others, but picked by the judges themselves.
Attempts to influence the judges in picking nominees is cause for
disqualification. Sales figures or how charismatic you are is will thus
have less of an effect, and they often succeed in picking a winner who only
much later will be recognised by SFWA and WSFS with a Hugo or Nebula. Like
the US Supreme Court, the system has one big drawback in that you can't
ensure that all future judges will truly be unbiased. When it works, it
works great, though. You avoid the "oppression by majority" syndrome.

The different awards also have different categories, and Nebula, for
example, really only handles standalone books and stories. Series where
each book isn't standalone have less of a chance of winning (although
LeGuin, Card and Wolfe have managed it, since the series books in questions
stood on their own).

There are, of course, too many truly great works out there, and some of them
will fall through the cracks. Sometimes so often that the only decent thing
to do is to give the poor writer a lifetime achievement award. Ellison gets
his this year (he truly has been writing genial stuff all his life, but has
unfortunately not been found worthy of a Nebula since 1977, despite
monumental collections like "Angry Candy" and "Slippage"). Vernor D. Vinge
is another author who deserves some recognition. Not only did he start the
whole cypherpunk genre with True Names, but his novels have had the
misfortune of being released at exactly the wrong time. A Fire Upon the
Deep came out just after Connie Willis' excellent (and, dare I say, better
advertised) Doomsday Book, for example. BOTH books truly deserved to win,
but it doesn't work that way.

I wouldn't mind if pterry got a Gandalf or LTA award while still
breathing -- he sure /is/ a great writer who works hard, works hard, makes
the world a little happier, works hard, and deserves to be recognised. But
there are so many others too, including brief flashes of genius that /do/
deserve to win for a given year.

[1]: DYI footnote.

Regards,
--
*Art
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235720 ] So, 12 März 2006 04:14
pjamison2  
Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9783A08CF3026daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...
> Also Sprach pjamison2:
>
>> "Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote in
>> message news:Xns97837ABA729A9daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4...
>>
>>> Also Sprach Sable Basilisk:
>>>
>>>> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a
>>>> while, instead of
>>>> all those depressing colonial books?
>>>
>>> The conventional answer is becaus he writes fantasy, and
>>> genre fiction doesn't get nominated. This isn't strictly
>>> true, genre *authors* don't get nominated. Genre fiction
>>> by authors with a "respectable" career can be.
>>>
>> In which case the critics and the literary snobs bend over
>> backward denying that what these respectable authors are
>> writing isn't genre fiction. Think PD James and Margaret
>> Atwood.
>
> Um, ITYM denying that it *is* or *claiming* that it isn't...
>
"Um" is right. I fouled that one up.

>> Paul - Why, yes, I read Dave Langford's "Ansible". How did
>> you guess?
>
> If you're talking SF, you're talking talking squids...
>
Exactly.

Paul
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235785 ] So, 12 März 2006 16:31
bbottorff  
> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while, instead of
> all those depressing colonial books?

Because most literary awards-- in fact, most formal literary anything,
including school [1], at least in the states-- *is* depressing. If
nobody dies [2][3][4], it's not likely to show up in school, or in any
awards shows, or anything that bears the Stamp of Official Literarature.


[1] Make that, *especially* school. More so if your teachers are on
the older side.

[2] That is, nobody you're supposed to care about. Of course, in High
Literary mode, where none of the protagonists are truely likable, I was
sort of rooting for the bloodbath at the end.

[3] And, of course, if there's a dog on the cover, he's definitely on
the endangered species list.

[4] And they're going to die in some highly symbolic, or highly heroic
way.
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #235787 ] So, 12 März 2006 16:33
Stacie Hanes  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while, instead
>> of all those depressing colonial books?
>
> Because most literary awards-- in fact, most formal literary
> anything, including school [1], at least in the states-- *is*
> depressing. If nobody dies [2][3][4], it's not likely to show up
> in school, or in any awards shows, or anything that bears the Stamp
> of Official Literarature.

<muffled squawks of outrage>

Nothing to see here, move along.

--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [SPOILERS] [message #235897 ] So, 12 März 2006 21:28
Geoff Field  
Boyd Bottorff wrote:
>> Why doesn't Terry win the Booker prize once in a while, instead of
>> all those depressing colonial books?
>
> Because most literary awards-- in fact, most formal literary anything,
> including school [1], at least in the states-- *is* depressing. If
> nobody dies [2][3][4], it's not likely to show up in school, or in any
> awards shows, or anything that bears the Stamp of Official
> Literarature.

But several characters die in GP.

[Spoiler Space]
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

a
r
e

l
o
n
g

g
a
p
s

What about Reacher Gilt? Whassname Dearheart? The assassin critter who
meets Stanley and his pins?

Geoff


--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Re: Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [SPOILERS] [message #235934 ] Mo, 13 März 2006 00:43
bbottorff  
> > Because most literary awards-- in fact, most formal literary anything,
> > including school [1], at least in the states-- *is* depressing. If
> > nobody dies [2][3][4], it's not likely to show up in school, or in any
> > awards shows, or anything that bears the Stamp of Official
> > Literarature.
>
> But several characters die in GP.

Yes, but they're not Literary Deaths.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #237122 ] Di, 14 März 2006 06:07
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #237201 ] Di, 14 März 2006 19:07
Lesley Weston  
in article luic1258gtl2pongjen1lhdfab2lv0m4d3 [at] 4ax.com, Aleks A.-Lessmann at
XaXlXeXkXsX [at] lessmann-consulting.com wrote on 13/03/2006 9:07 PM:

> On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:37:33 -0500, Arthur Hagen wrote:
>> Oh, and there's the Nobel Price in Literature, but the chance of any fantasy
>> author winning there is slim. Gunther Grass did, but that was probably more
>> due to this political agenda than his fantasy.
>
> I've bored myself through three of Grass' books and don't see him in the
> realms of fantasy whatsoever (Ok, Blechtrommel is "fantastic realism").
> But I may have happened on the three books more distant from fantasy
> he's ever written.

They certainly aren't realistic, they're not SF or Romance or Western - that
leaves Fantasy. I like "The Tin Drum" a lot, and some of his other books
almost as much.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #237728 ] Fr, 17 März 2006 09:27
Notifier Deamon  
Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
Re: [I] Pterry gets Nebula Nomination for GP [message #237989 ] Fr, 17 März 2006 23:59
Lesley Weston  
in article ndth12lq52qin8t01ksjq745kbc43bssi4 [at] 4ax.com, Aleks A.-Lessmann at
XaXlXeXkXsX [at] lessmann-consulting.com wrote on 17/03/2006 12:27 AM:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:07:35 GMT, Lesley Weston wrote:
>
>> in article luic1258gtl2pongjen1lhdfab2lv0m4d3 [at] 4ax.com, Aleks A.-Lessmann at
>>> I've bored myself through three of Grass' books and don't see him in the
>>> realms of fantasy whatsoever (Ok, Blechtrommel is "fantastic realism").
>> They certainly aren't realistic, they're not SF or Romance or Western - that
>> leaves Fantasy. I like "The Tin Drum" a lot, and some of his other books
>
> Methinks you're closing the bag too tight.

Could be. I left out Crime, for a start.

> OTOH, if you consider the
> non-crime stories of Roald Dahl to be Fantasy,

Yes, I think so. Certainly his children's stories are.

> then I see where you're
> going, and we'll have to agree to disagree. But what do you make of e.g.
> Chester Himes? Or Evelyn Waugh (sp?)?

I don't know of Chester Himes, but Evelyn Waugh wrote satire, and very
competently too; and sometimes straight lichracher, also very competently.
IMO.

--
Lesley Weston.

Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
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